[ITNOG] Genoa Question
Roderick Beck
roderick.beck@networksourcing.net
Ven 24 Gen 2025 17:55:33 CET
Let me respond to the three sets of comments.
First of all, Dr. Morino, thank you for your comments.
I think you are underestimating the importance of resiliency and physical
diversity. Marseille is a single point of failure. This is why some cables
land at Bario, Genoa, Barcelona, South of France, and probably some day
Trieste. Yes, these different locations reduce end-to-end latency for
traffic, but Google and Facebook, which are the main drivers of most new
cables, definitely care about physical diversity. They've told me so.
Also Marseille is a poor location for traffic bound for Italy Switzerland,
Germany, Austria or Northern Europe. It is simply too far West.
I do think though that your conclusion might be right due to the lack of
space suitable for data centers in Genoa and perhaps more importantly the
fact that Genoa is so close to Milano unlike Marseille and Paris. With
Marseille as an Internet hub one gets low latency access to French eyeballs
in the South.
I would also remind everyone that Marseille's gateway status is relatively
new. It was not an important landing point before 2013. And just as almost
all Atlantic traffic landed in the UK, but has now switched to landing in
France, change can happen pretty quickly.
I must go now, but I may have more comments.
Note Triest could be the next new landing point.
Regards,
Roderick.
On Fri, Jan 24, 2025 at 12:00 PM <itnog-request@lists.itnog.it> wrote:
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> Argomenti del Giorno:
>
> 1. Re: Genoa Question (Livio Morina)
> 2. Re: Genoa Question (Brian Turnbow)
> 3. Re: Genoa Question (Federico Tabḅ)
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Livio Morina <l.morina@airbeam.it>
> To: itnog@lists.itnog.it
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2025 13:42:04 +0100
> Subject: Re: [ITNOG] Genoa Question
> Marseille has grown and become the European gateway for east-west traffic.
>
> Genoa cannot follow the same path because the conditions are different:
> the Mediterranean GW has already been established.
>
> So the comparison does not help to bet on the development of *Landing
> City*.
>
> Said that there could be other reasons.
>
>
> * Dr. Livio Morina * Chief Executive Officer | Airbeam Srl Unipersonale | *ISP
> *- *FLEXOPTIX *Distributor
> *Registered Office:* Via Chiodi 11 | Predore (BG) - Italy
> * Operational Headquarter:* Piazzale Tonoletti 7 | Palazzolo s/O (BS) -
> Italy
> PI 03707490169 - www.airbeam.it - Ph +39 030 8559
> Iscriviti alla Mailing List moduliottici.it <http://www.moduliottici.it/>
> !
>
> On 23/01/2025 10:29, Roderick Beck wrote:
>
> Let me explain what has happened at Marseille. Capacity requests between
> Europe and Singapore mostly terminate in Marseille, not Milan, Frankfurt or
> Paris.
> People peer in Marseille which was definitely a backwater comparable to
> Genoa in 2015. It is now the gateway to Europe.
>
> Regards,
>
> Roderick.
>
> On Wed, Jan 22, 2025 at 2:12 PM Roderick Beck <
> roderick.beck@networksourcing.net> wrote:
>
>> Buongiorno,
>>
>> Ladies and Gentlemen,
>>
>> Do you think Genoa has the potential to become a major peering point
>> given the large number of high capcity cables landing there? That's how
>> Marseille became a peering point. A large number of cables put their CLS
>> equipment in the Marseille Interxion 1 and 2 buildings and soon those
>> riding the cables started cross connecting.
>>
>> Genoa cables include
>> 1. 2Africa. 180 Tbps design capacity.
>> 2. Blue-Raman. 218 Tbps design capacity.
>> 3. Sipartech's Medloop. ???
>> 4. Unitirreno. (At least 320 Tbps depending on the branch).
>>
>> Let me know your thoughts on or off-list.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Roderick.
>>
>> --
>> Roderick Beck
>> Network Capacity Sourcing - Broker
>> Mobile: 00-36-70-605-5144.
>> Landline: 1-908-452-8183
>> Email: roderick.beck@networksourcing.net
>> Telegram: @RoderickBeck
>> Tallinn & Budapest.
>>
>>
>
> --
> Roderick Beck
> Network Capacity Sourcing - Broker
> Mobile: 00-36-70-605-5144.
> Landline: 1-908-452-8183
> Email: roderick.beck@networksourcing.net
> Telegram: @RoderickBeck
> Tallinn & Budapest.
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Brian Turnbow <brian@itnog.it>
> To: Livio Morina <l.morina@airbeam.it>
> Cc: ITNOG <itnog@lists.itnog.it>
> Bcc:
> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2025 20:16:08 +0100
> Subject: Re: [ITNOG] Genoa Question
> You must consider that Genoa is a city nestled between the sea and the
> hills. This means that the available land to construct DCs is very limited
> and pricey. Thus content and carriers will be reluctant to build out and
> limited to the available DCs. A lot of the cables landing are proceeding
> to Milan directly that offers an ever increasing landscape of both content
> and DCs. So you can find better facilities , more connections in and out of
> Italy with a few Ms in Milan.
> I do think that Genoa has its place as a landing station/connection
> point/local gateway, but there are impediments in it becoming a larger
> traffic source.
> That said I do hope that I am proven wrong and Genoa becomes the biggest
> traffic hub in the Mediterranean:-)
>
>
> Brian
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 23, 2025, 13:42 Livio Morina <l.morina@airbeam.it> wrote:
>
>> Marseille has grown and become the European gateway for east-west traffic.
>>
>> Genoa cannot follow the same path because the conditions are different:
>> the Mediterranean GW has already been established.
>>
>> So the comparison does not help to bet on the development of *Landing
>> City*.
>>
>> Said that there could be other reasons.
>>
>>
>> * Dr. Livio Morina * Chief Executive Officer | Airbeam Srl Unipersonale
>> | *ISP *- *FLEXOPTIX *Distributor
>> *Registered Office:* Via Chiodi 11 | Predore (BG) - Italy
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/Via%0D%0A++++++++++++++++++++++++Chiodi+11+%7C+Predore+(BG)+-+Italy?entry=gmail&source=g>
>> * Operational Headquarter:* Piazzale Tonoletti 7 | Palazzolo s/O (BS) -
>> Italy
>> PI 03707490169 - www.airbeam.it - Ph +39 030 8559
>> Iscriviti alla Mailing List moduliottici.it <http://www.moduliottici.it/>
>> !
>>
>> On 23/01/2025 10:29, Roderick Beck wrote:
>>
>> Let me explain what has happened at Marseille. Capacity requests between
>> Europe and Singapore mostly terminate in Marseille, not Milan, Frankfurt or
>> Paris.
>> People peer in Marseille which was definitely a backwater comparable to
>> Genoa in 2015. It is now the gateway to Europe.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Roderick.
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 22, 2025 at 2:12 PM Roderick Beck <
>> roderick.beck@networksourcing.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Buongiorno,
>>>
>>> Ladies and Gentlemen,
>>>
>>> Do you think Genoa has the potential to become a major peering point
>>> given the large number of high capcity cables landing there? That's how
>>> Marseille became a peering point. A large number of cables put their CLS
>>> equipment in the Marseille Interxion 1 and 2 buildings and soon those
>>> riding the cables started cross connecting.
>>>
>>> Genoa cables include
>>> 1. 2Africa. 180 Tbps design capacity.
>>> 2. Blue-Raman. 218 Tbps design capacity.
>>> 3. Sipartech's Medloop. ???
>>> 4. Unitirreno. (At least 320 Tbps depending on the branch).
>>>
>>> Let me know your thoughts on or off-list.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Roderick.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Roderick Beck
>>> Network Capacity Sourcing - Broker
>>> Mobile: 00-36-70-605-5144.
>>> Landline: 1-908-452-8183
>>> Email: roderick.beck@networksourcing.net
>>> Telegram: @RoderickBeck
>>> Tallinn & Budapest.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Roderick Beck
>> Network Capacity Sourcing - Broker
>> Mobile: 00-36-70-605-5144.
>> Landline: 1-908-452-8183
>> Email: roderick.beck@networksourcing.net
>> Telegram: @RoderickBeck
>> Tallinn & Budapest.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mailing list info: http://lists.itnog.it/listinfo/itnog
>>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Federico Tabḅ" <federico@tabbo.it>
> To: Brian Turnbow <brian@itnog.it>
> Cc: Livio Morina <l.morina@airbeam.it>, ITNOG <itnog@lists.itnog.it>
> Bcc:
> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2025 20:34:42 +0100
> Subject: Re: [ITNOG] Genoa Question
> As someone born in Genoa I am sure my fellow zeneizi will make sure to
> drive away any and all innovations with a doubtful "ehh... *manimàn"*
>
> Il Gio 23 Gen 2025, 20:16 Brian Turnbow <brian@itnog.it> ha scritto:
>
>> You must consider that Genoa is a city nestled between the sea and the
>> hills. This means that the available land to construct DCs is very limited
>> and pricey. Thus content and carriers will be reluctant to build out and
>> limited to the available DCs. A lot of the cables landing are proceeding
>> to Milan directly that offers an ever increasing landscape of both content
>> and DCs. So you can find better facilities , more connections in and out of
>> Italy with a few Ms in Milan.
>> I do think that Genoa has its place as a landing station/connection
>> point/local gateway, but there are impediments in it becoming a larger
>> traffic source.
>> That said I do hope that I am proven wrong and Genoa becomes the biggest
>> traffic hub in the Mediterranean:-)
>>
>>
>> Brian
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 23, 2025, 13:42 Livio Morina <l.morina@airbeam.it> wrote:
>>
>>> Marseille has grown and become the European gateway for east-west
>>> traffic.
>>>
>>> Genoa cannot follow the same path because the conditions are different:
>>> the Mediterranean GW has already been established.
>>>
>>> So the comparison does not help to bet on the development of *Landing
>>> City*.
>>>
>>> Said that there could be other reasons.
>>>
>>>
>>> * Dr. Livio Morina * Chief Executive Officer | Airbeam Srl Unipersonale
>>> | *ISP *- *FLEXOPTIX *Distributor
>>> *Registered Office:* Via Chiodi 11 | Predore (BG) - Italy
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/Via%0D%0A++++++++++++++++++++++++Chiodi+11+%7C+Predore+(BG)+-+Italy?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>> * Operational Headquarter:* Piazzale Tonoletti 7 | Palazzolo s/O (BS) -
>>> Italy
>>> PI 03707490169 - www.airbeam.it - Ph +39 030 8559
>>> Iscriviti alla Mailing List moduliottici.it
>>> <http://www.moduliottici.it/> !
>>>
>>> On 23/01/2025 10:29, Roderick Beck wrote:
>>>
>>> Let me explain what has happened at Marseille. Capacity requests between
>>> Europe and Singapore mostly terminate in Marseille, not Milan, Frankfurt or
>>> Paris.
>>> People peer in Marseille which was definitely a backwater comparable to
>>> Genoa in 2015. It is now the gateway to Europe.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Roderick.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 22, 2025 at 2:12 PM Roderick Beck <
>>> roderick.beck@networksourcing.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Buongiorno,
>>>>
>>>> Ladies and Gentlemen,
>>>>
>>>> Do you think Genoa has the potential to become a major peering point
>>>> given the large number of high capcity cables landing there? That's how
>>>> Marseille became a peering point. A large number of cables put their CLS
>>>> equipment in the Marseille Interxion 1 and 2 buildings and soon those
>>>> riding the cables started cross connecting.
>>>>
>>>> Genoa cables include
>>>> 1. 2Africa. 180 Tbps design capacity.
>>>> 2. Blue-Raman. 218 Tbps design capacity.
>>>> 3. Sipartech's Medloop. ???
>>>> 4. Unitirreno. (At least 320 Tbps depending on the branch).
>>>>
>>>> Let me know your thoughts on or off-list.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Roderick.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Roderick Beck
>>>> Network Capacity Sourcing - Broker
>>>> Mobile: 00-36-70-605-5144.
>>>> Landline: 1-908-452-8183
>>>> Email: roderick.beck@networksourcing.net
>>>> Telegram: @RoderickBeck
>>>> Tallinn & Budapest.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Roderick Beck
>>> Network Capacity Sourcing - Broker
>>> Mobile: 00-36-70-605-5144.
>>> Landline: 1-908-452-8183
>>> Email: roderick.beck@networksourcing.net
>>> Telegram: @RoderickBeck
>>> Tallinn & Budapest.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mailing list info: http://lists.itnog.it/listinfo/itnog
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Mailing list info: http://lists.itnog.it/listinfo/itnog
>>
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--
Roderick Beck
Network Capacity Sourcing - Broker
Mobile: 00-36-70-605-5144.
Landline: 1-908-452-8183
Email: roderick.beck@networksourcing.net
Telegram: @RoderickBeck
Tallinn & Budapest.
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